Author Topic: UT4 / Auto Generator  (Read 5670 times)

ggadwa

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UT4 / Auto Generator
« on: February 08, 2015, 07:04:21 PM »
Now that UT4 is in alpha (and free, and community driven) I was thinking of dropping by the forum and seeing if there's anything dim3 related they might be able to use, and was thinking that I could tear out the auto-generation part -- knowing full well the limitations of them -- and devise some sort of tool that anybody could use in any development environment to make starter or prototype maps.

Thoughts?

The auto-generating stuff was always my favorite thing to play with.  Heck, I could redo it in JavaScript (yes, that seems silly -- but it doesn't need to be lighting fast, and it needs to be as cross-platform as possible.)

[>] Brian

`teh1

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Re: UT4 / Auto Generator
« Reply #1 on: February 09, 2015, 11:13:39 PM »
Actually, NodeJS is pretty lightning fast... ;p If you did that you'd probably want to make it create its modules from random sets of prefab pieces. Floors, walls, ceilings...
~Ryan

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ggadwa

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Re: UT4 / Auto Generator
« Reply #2 on: February 11, 2015, 06:09:14 AM »
Actually, NodeJS is pretty lightning fast... ;p If you did that you'd probably want to make it create its modules from random sets of prefab pieces. Floors, walls, ceilings...

It just be a interesting thing to try, but I still want to try completely random.  I did the prefab piece thing once and it was kind of cool but it seemed a bit to prefab, but it might be something I'll go back to.

[>] Brian

ggadwa

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Re: UT4 / Auto Generator
« Reply #3 on: February 27, 2015, 01:17:44 PM »
I'll have something interesting along this lines in a week or so.  It's something like this, but a bit different.  That's a teaser!

[>] Brian

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Re: UT4 / Auto Generator
« Reply #4 on: March 04, 2015, 03:44:10 AM »
Perhaps this is a good time to think about the future of dim3 in general.
The last few days have been very eventful for the indie game community. Three major game engines, UE4, Unity 5  and Source 2, are now completely free. Dim3 used to be the only free game engine for Mac. That was what made it unique and gave it a purpose.
Now you can choose from a number of free solutions and each one beats dim3 in every way imaginable. Why would anyone still pick dim3 when they could be using the same tools that were used to make some of the most amazing games of the past two decades?
I just don't see that happening.

Do you plan on keeping the development going? If it's a hobby, that's perfectly fine of course, but you can't expect people to actually use dim3 for anything. I personally would find that very discouraging.
Maybe it's time to move towards a different goal. Auto-generation of content is certainly a possibility and especially in rapid prototyping its very useful. Perhaps a library that could be wrapped in Plug-Ins for all major engines would be a nice project that's not only fun to develop but also gives the game development community a useful tool, which dim3 is not.

Again, I'm not saying you should stop developing dim3. All I'm saying is that I would, if it was my project.

ggadwa

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Re: UT4 / Auto Generator
« Reply #5 on: March 04, 2015, 06:44:38 AM »
Perhaps this is a good time to think about the future of dim3 in general.
The last few days have been very eventful for the indie game community. Three major game engines, UE4, Unity 5  and Source 2, are now completely free. Dim3 used to be the only free game engine for Mac. That was what made it unique and gave it a purpose.
Now you can choose from a number of free solutions and each one beats dim3 in every way imaginable. Why would anyone still pick dim3 when they could be using the same tools that were used to make some of the most amazing games of the past two decades?
I just don't see that happening.

Do you plan on keeping the development going? If it's a hobby, that's perfectly fine of course, but you can't expect people to actually use dim3 for anything. I personally would find that very discouraging.
Maybe it's time to move towards a different goal. Auto-generation of content is certainly a possibility and especially in rapid prototyping its very useful. Perhaps a library that could be wrapped in Plug-Ins for all major engines would be a nice project that's not only fun to develop but also gives the game development community a useful tool, which dim3 is not.

Again, I'm not saying you should stop developing dim3. All I'm saying is that I would, if it was my project.

Yup, this is the reality I've been looking at.  Unity and Source are probably going to eventually be toast or relegated to smaller projects in the end, I just don't see anything stopping the UE juggernaut soon.  Look at ID, they are now hardly a player.  Eventually, UE will stumble itself, but that's a long time in the future.

That's why I have something new cooking up.

The fact of the matter is, there are big companies in this space.  Hobbyist can't really compete, so we need to offer something unique or something that can be used for a smaller subset or interesting possibilities.

[>] Brian

ggadwa

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Re: UT4 / Auto Generator
« Reply #6 on: March 04, 2015, 11:06:40 AM »
BTW, this new free, open-source, community driven UT is genius.  It gets Epic testers, it gets epic people that know how to use it's engine, it gets stuff for it's market-place, and it gets their name out there for a new UT game (which has been a long time in coming.)

Epic really is making a lot of really good moves here.

[>] Brian

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Re: UT4 / Auto Generator
« Reply #7 on: March 04, 2015, 11:07:47 AM »
The fact of the matter is, there are big companies in this space.  Hobbyist can't really compete, so we need to offer something unique or something that can be used for a smaller subset or interesting possibilities.

[>] Brian
It might be the same as it is with making games.
The big players have the funds and experience to create state of the art, next-generation, AAA quality games. As an indie dev you can't really do that. Look at the popular indie games of the last few years. Most if not all filled a niche of some sort and that's why they were successful.

Maybe it is the same with tools. Making game dev tools wasn't really a thing until recently. It's going to blow up now that all of these engines are so easily accessible.

May I ask what you're working on? Is it related to procedural/random generation of content?

ggadwa

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Re: UT4 / Auto Generator
« Reply #8 on: March 04, 2015, 02:07:26 PM »
It is related, but it's interesting in the platform.  Cat out of bag: I'm working on a pure javascript 3D engine with all dynamic content.  Right now, it's just a "can it be done" thing.  When I get further, I'll see what I can flesh it out to be.

Name: web-shooter!

I'll have a demonstration version in a while.  It's all freeware open source stuff.  If somebody wanted to make something interesting, this time they just edit the code of the engine itself!

[>] Brian

Bink

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Re: UT4 / Auto Generator
« Reply #9 on: March 04, 2015, 02:18:42 PM »
It is related, but it's interesting in the platform.  Cat out of bag: I'm working on a pure javascript 3D engine with all dynamic content.  Right now, it's just a "can it be done" thing.  When I get further, I'll see what I can flesh it out to be.

Name: web-shooter!

I'll have a demonstration version in a while.  It's all freeware open source stuff.  If somebody wanted to make something interesting, this time they just edit the code of the engine itself!

[>] Brian

What exactly do you mean by pure javascript? How much of the engine will be JS? I'm assuming that you're talking about WebGL to make it run in a browser?
If that's what you want to do, "can it be done" isn't really a valid question. It has been done. Unity exports to WebGL now and does a great job at that.
Of course you can't go in and edit the JS directly to change the game, but I really don't see why you would want to do that when you have a complete development environment at your disposal anyway.

ggadwa

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Re: UT4 / Auto Generator
« Reply #10 on: March 04, 2015, 07:57:22 PM »
It is related, but it's interesting in the platform.  Cat out of bag: I'm working on a pure javascript 3D engine with all dynamic content.  Right now, it's just a "can it be done" thing.  When I get further, I'll see what I can flesh it out to be.

Name: web-shooter!

I'll have a demonstration version in a while.  It's all freeware open source stuff.  If somebody wanted to make something interesting, this time they just edit the code of the engine itself!

[>] Brian

What exactly do you mean by pure javascript? How much of the engine will be JS? I'm assuming that you're talking about WebGL to make it run in a browser?
If that's what you want to do, "can it be done" isn't really a valid question. It has been done. Unity exports to WebGL now and does a great job at that.
Of course you can't go in and edit the JS directly to change the game, but I really don't see why you would want to do that when you have a complete development environment at your disposal anyway.

Not competing with anybody for being an engine, it'll be a game.

[>] Brian

`teh1

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Re: UT4 / Auto Generator
« Reply #11 on: March 04, 2015, 09:48:37 PM »
My problem is that it seems like Javascript is a bit of a fad. It's made its way into other applications via NodeJS, but it is pretty flawed in a lot of ways... I think that there are better things to focus on...
~Ryan

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ggadwa

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Re: UT4 / Auto Generator
« Reply #12 on: March 05, 2015, 06:08:34 AM »
My problem is that it seems like Javascript is a bit of a fad. It's made its way into other applications via NodeJS, but it is pretty flawed in a lot of ways... I think that there are better things to focus on...

Potentially, but I don't think any language other than JS gets as much work in optimization.  Also, stuff like unity and UE in javascript aren't really in javascript but asm.js, which is a cross compile from C and a mozilla technology (and soon to be in IE.)

I'm just trying it out.  Let's see what happens!

[>] Brian

ggadwa

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Re: UT4 / Auto Generator
« Reply #13 on: March 06, 2015, 11:21:55 AM »

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Re: UT4 / Auto Generator
« Reply #14 on: March 27, 2015, 01:36:16 PM »
I'll be really interested to see how things develop with the auto generator!
Some of this thread made me a little sad, I love Dim3, but I guess it is now impossible to compete with UE4. So in the spirit of: if you can't beat 'em, join 'em, I downloaded UE4 the other day and have been playing about with it, gotta say it is really great... somehow for me it lacks some of the charm of Dim3, but I am having a lot of fun with it...